Keeping the Scot flat with a light crew

Submitted by johncallis on Mon, 07/09/2007 - 19:41
My wife and I weigh 115 lbs. and 180 lbs. and we sail on the Great South Bay of Long Island where we frequently encounter 15 - 20 mile per hour winds. We can control the boat but it requires constant easing of the main. I'm sure we are healing too much, and our speed is compromised. I recently observed two guys that did not weigh much more than us. May be 20 lbs. and their boat was flat and fast. How can we flatten our boat out. We are already working the vang, cunningham and outhaul, and trying to hike out. Maybe we aren't working these things properly, or maybe there is something we are missing. Any advice would be appreciated, as sailing with a third is not the solution we are looking for. Thank You John 3873
‹ working jib and main together in puffs working the boom vang ›

Comments

How hard are you pulling on the vang? It's been said here before

Submitted by Tripp on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 12:56.
How hard are you pulling on the vang? It's been said here before, but essentially you pull it on until you think the boom will break....then pull a bit more. Go hard on the cunno and outhaul as well (sounds like you are) and keep your weight centered and together. Lastly, try feathering the boat upwind. In higher winds, the inner telltails should be pointing up. If you're not feathering the boat up, you're not taking full advantage of working to windward. It will also help de-power as well. just my .02 [8] FS4830

Everything that Tripp said.

Submitted by Gallus 102 on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 15:32.
Everything that Tripp said. Feathering is the most important after you do the other things. What seems to work is to first ease the main till the boom end is over the transom corner. When that alone will no longer keep the boat flat, feather up. Sheet in every chance you get, even if it is only for a second or two. NB--Don't forget to ease the vang before rounding the windward mark--you'll probably break it if the wind is that strong as you bear off.

quote:[i]Originally posted by Gallus 102[/i] [br]Everything tha

Submitted by johncallis on Sun, 07/15/2007 - 10:49.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Gallus 102[/i] [br]Everything that Tripp said. Feathering is the most important after you do the other things. What seems to work is to first ease the main till the boom end is over the transom corner. When that alone will no longer keep the boat flat, feather up. Sheet in every chance you get, even if it is only for a second or two. NB--Don't forget to ease the vang before rounding the windward mark--you'll probably break it if the wind is that strong as you bear off.
Thanks, I have been pulling on the vang quite hard but I will try to pull on it a little more. Feathering the boat to windward sounds a little bit like pinching, and I've always thought that you don't want to do that. I will try it, but if feathering is nothing like pinching than maybe you could explain how it is done. John 3873

My wife and I face a similar challege, we weigh about 310 combin

Submitted by Dave812 on Sun, 07/15/2007 - 21:50.
My wife and I face a similar challege, we weigh about 310 combined. We have pretty good speed in lighter air but when the breeze gets to 15 we start to slip back in the pack. I think it is important to consider the waves when deciding how to sail in breeze. In flatter water it is ok to help manage heel by pinching a bit after easing the main to try to keep the boat on it feet. Once the waves get up pinching should be avoided, this is when you need to keep the boat driving fast. The best way to do this is hike, play the mainsheet constantly and move the jib leads back a bit to open the jib leach (along with the other controls mentioned). Snug rig may be better than loose in areas like the great South Bay where it is frequently breezy. Having said that, there is no substitute for weight on the rail. It is really hard to hang with a boat that has 425 or 450 lb crews when the breeze is on. We feel we must make gains on the spinnaker runs to help make up what we lose on the beats. I hope to get better at this but it isn't easy. Sailing with a third is not something we will be doing very often. Good luck.

guys.

Submitted by tweisleder on Wed, 07/18/2007 - 21:49.
guys.....point point point pinch pinch pinch.....make that jib luff; sounds crazy, but pretty much that is "feathering". Trip mentioned stalling the weather tell tail and that is true, but to really find your sweet spot, have the luff of the jib begin to luff, just a touch...when she flattens out, bear off a hair...repeat...and remember...ease, hike, head up, trim, flatten, bear off....sounds like a lot...but it is VERY fast. The key is keeping the boat from stalling and on its feet. If you spend some time practicing this you will be able to feel the boat begin to slow down when you have headed up and trimed...when you feel that bear back off and ease in the puff...flatten the boat and then head up and trim back in. Regards, Travis B. Weisleder 5341

I too feel real difficulty keeping the boat flat with two people

Submitted by KHennessey on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 15:36.
I too feel real difficulty keeping the boat flat with two people in the boat. In heavy wind I crank on the vang, pull the cunningham and outhaul. Although, i find that pulling the outhaul too tight in chop or heavy waves is a real mistake. I have had a hard time finding the balance on feathering vs pinching too much. Question: how do i know how hard to pull the jib halyard particualrly inheavy wind? Also, do you pull the windward jib sheet in with heavy wind and chop?

In breeze and chop we still cranked the outhaul; we are not pull

Submitted by tweisleder on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 20:52.
In breeze and chop we still cranked the outhaul; we are not pulling it on 100% but I would say about 85% - 90%. Those mains are SO big, you need to do everything you can to flatten it out. We use very little cunningham; until we really had to. Now the older the sails, the more cunningham you will need to move the draft around. You should have a nice round entry with the jib; meaning no crows feet or wrinkels for being too loose and not too tight where you will see lines coming up from the tack. We like to take the weather sheet off in 15+ and chop. The two breezy races (Race 1 12kts and race 4 15 - 18Kts) at the NACs we did that and it seemed to work well. To find the balance, you just need to get out there and see what it feels like..does it feel "heavy" meaning slow or sluggish...or are you feeling out of control with a lot of weather helm. I know DAve said in an earlier post said dont pinch in breeze and chop. I would agree and disagree. In breeze and chop you are steering and easing and trimming like a mad man; constant. Now dave and his wife (i think) sailed pretty light at the NACs. If I was light I would crank vang, ease to flatten, head up, and as I do that trim back in to max or a little beyond. Next time you are out, try to line up next to someone and try it. It will seem weird and a little funky at first, but keep at it. Regards, Travis 5341

Agreed.

Submitted by Dave812 on Fri, 07/20/2007 - 07:51.
Agreed. I made my comments specifically regarding the great south bay on the south side of Long Island. I sailed there quite a few times (not on a Scot) about 15 years ago. They get a healthy seabreeze of maybe 15 on average but 20 is not unusual from the SSW. I would guess the fetch is 4 to 5 miles from the south to north across the bay. In those winds the waves would be around 3 feet, fairly steep and close together, some breaking, some not. This seems like it would be a very challenging place to sail a Scot especially at 300lbs. Getting caught by those waves in pinch mode would really slow the boat down. I think you would have to keep the jib powered up and work the main constantly to manage heal, boat speed would be my priority.

I usually do well upwind even at weights of 350 lbs or less in o

Submitted by Jay Lott on Tue, 09/11/2007 - 16:08.
I usually do well upwind even at weights of 350 lbs or less in overpowered conditions. Here is what to do when you are overpowered (you will know you are overpowered when you are fully hiked and the main is trimmed all the way in and the boat still heels past the optimum heel angle): 1. Move jib lead back. This opens the jib / main slot, depowers the top of the jib and gives a better pointing angle with the bottom of the jib. 2. Stop windward sheeting. No point in it in these conditions. You want to keep the slot open. It's more important to be flat and fast than to get a little more pointing. 3. Max outhaul (even in less than windy conditions I keep my outhaul within an inch or two of max - the outhaul is not an important adjustment on the Scot) 4. Max cunningham. 5. Max vang. You should have been progressively applying more vang as the wind increased to overpowered conditions. Do 3 through 5 and your main should resemble a piece of plywood in how flat it is. At this point I usually encourage my crew to hike a little harder. 6. Now keep the boat FLAT. This means sailing the boat on a slight feather on the jib (inside telltale tickling but jib not visibly luffing) and EASING THE MAIN AS MUCH AS NECESSARY to keep the boat flat. If you heel then you get windward helm which is slow. 7. If it is wavy then you need to learn to work the tiller and the main to keep the boat powered in the waves. When you hit a big wave, which would otherwise kill your speed, yank the tiller toward you to steer away from the wind a little and ease the main at the same time. This will help the jib drive the boat through the wave but will keep the main from heeling the boat. When you get to a flat spot trim back in and steer back up. I am talking relatively small corrections here, probably not more than 5 degrees in steady wind. Don't be afraid to manhandle the tiller. It's more important to keep the boat balanced than it is to use easy tiller movements, in heavy air. In big waves I am often easing, and trimming, on every wave. Make sure your biceps are in good shape. 8. If you get so overpowered that you have to luff the whole main then you are highly overpowered. Luffing all the way back to the leech of the main will cause the boat to have lee helm and fall away from the wind. You may need to luff the jib momentarily to recover the boat's balance and get going again. If this keeps happening consider abandoning the race and heading to the bar. J. Lott FS 5698

i'm new to scots, so what do i know, but, here goes anyway: all

Submitted by jim600 on Mon, 11/26/2007 - 19:22.
i'm new to scots, so what do i know, but, here goes anyway: all of the above plus: having the crew ease the jib leeward sheet slightly during gust and fluctuation onslaught might help. i'm guessing just an inch or two. it should open the leach and depower the jib at the same time you are easing the main. also, regarding feathering: if the crew is watching the water and saying,"gust in five seconds, looks like a lift"you can poke up a litle BEFORE the gust onslaught so the boat stays on itsx feet. coversely, if it is a header, you can simply ease the main and maintain course - same net effect. in waves, i'd recommend reading frank bethwaite's book-HIGH PERFORMANCE SAILING. (not during the actual sailing in waves part). hike so hard that you need antiinflamatories from day 2 onward!!!!!!!oatmeal, yoghurt, bananas, musclemyosuperplex, and the roman chair!!!!!!!lots of water between races. as the breeze goes up i spend more time feeling the heel and watching the water and less time looking at the telltales. don't know yet how much of this applies to scots, though. if the boat heels over before you make the adjustments, it is too late. you need to anticipate, and adjust from a fully hiked position. oh, arm curls and pull-ups!!! ouch